CNN NEWSROOM
Obama’s Trip Overseas; McCain Accuses Obama of Armchair Quarterbacking; Racial Slur: Jesse Jackson’s Comments Stir Debate
Aired July 18, 2008 – 14:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: Low pressure, high interest. You’re looking at what may become the next tropical storm. Well, actually, Jesse Jackson started his own storm. But that’s the other story.
We’re talking about the doorstep of southeast Georgia and the Carolinas. Our Reynolds Wolf is on it.
DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: And we’ve got a lot of storms brewing today in the CNN NEWSROOM. That was one of them, Kyra.
But we haven’t heard the last of Jesse Jackson’s inflammatory words into the microphone he thought was turned off. What does he say after he says he is sorry? We’re going to talk about that today in the CNN NEWSROOM.
Hello, everyone. I’m Don Lemon, live here at the CNN World Headquarters in Atlanta.
PHILLIPS: And I’m Kyra Phillips in New York.
You’re live in the CNN NEWSROOM.
LEMON: OK. Joining me now from Chicago to talk more about this explosive issue — and we say explosive because it’s really burning up the blogs, newspapers, TV. Everywhere you go.
There’s Deborah Douglas. She’s a columnist with “The Chicago Sun-Times.” And in New York, Carmen Van Kerckhove, the cofounder and president of The New Demographic, a consulting firm that helps people learn about racism.
Thank you very much. We have a lot of ground to cover here.
OK. I’m going to start with you, Deborah, because I called you a recovering N-wordaholic, but you said it was more like a diet. You go on it, and then you go off it. And now you’re done with it.
And you said I guess you’re a recovering N-wordaholic. I’m not sure. But you say Reverend Jackson should go on that same diet as well.
DEBORAH DOUGLAS, COLUMNIST, “CHICAGO SUN-TIMES”: Well, it’s a word that is apropos for many situations. I wouldn’t say I use it on a daily basis for every situation. But sometimes you need just that word that has that je ne sais quoi to apply to the situation. So, yes, I have used that word, as many of my friends and family members.
LEMON: So you used that word. But why — OK, why can’t white people use that word? If black people use that word and they say it has a certain je ne sais quoi, then why is it racist and hurtful when white people use it?
DOUGLAS: Well, it’s racist and hurtful because there is some intent behind it when white people use it. In the past…
LEMON: But there is intent behind it when black people use it as well. I mean, I don’t think that — that wasn’t — he wasn’t saying, I love Barack Obama because he’s an N-word, he was saying something — yes.
DOUGLAS: No. But, no, we use it to chastise. It’s a term of endearment.
And like I said, in the case of Jackson, it was some assumed group (ph) thing. But in the past, when white people used the word, you would have the word and then you would have an action behind it. Maybe not giving a person a job.
You know, back in our history, it was stringing somebody up on a tree. If I heard a white person say it, I would get scared and shaky. When a black person uses it, I have to consider the context.
LEMON: OK. Listen, the last words of a column that you wrote — and I’m reading it — it says, “So, N-word, like many dysfunctional relationships I’ve weathered, you must pack up and leave my mouth. We did have a lot of fun.”
DOUGLAS: Yes, we did.
LEMON: “Like a drunken uncle, you are a great punch line, but you are hurting people I care about. So you have got to go.”
DOUGLAS: Yes. Right.
LEMON: “Mr. Jackson, you are welcome to join me.”
DOUGLAS: Yes.
LEMON: So you’re done with that word?
LEMON: I’m done with that word. But I’m searching for a new word that is just not so dubious and problematic.
LEMON: OK. All right.
Carmen, thank you for being so patient.
You are saying we make way too much out of this. The media, the public, everyone is making way too much out of this. And this is really stopping people from having a smart and intelligent, in-depth discussion about race. CARMEN VAN KERCKHOVE, CO-FOUNDER & PRESIDENT, NEW DEMOGRAPHIC: Well, I really see this as being very much similar to the curfuffle around Don Imus and Michael Richards in that we really focus a lot on the use of racial slurs by public figures. And you know, that’s not excusing it, but I think that by focusing so much on terminology and the words that people use — even if everybody stopped using this word today, racism wouldn’t go away.
LEMON: Yes, but that word, I mean, when you say it, it’s just — I hate it hear the word. And a lot of people hate to hear that word. And when you hear it from someone like Reverend Jackson, it is diminishing of the person he’s speaking about to. The question is though, did he get a pass, Carmen? Did he get a pass?
KERCKHOVE: I think that this is a big story, not just because Jesse Jackson is black, but really because he’s a civil rights leader, and that he has come out and spoken against that word. But I don’t think it’s…
LEMON: You’re not answering me though. Did he get a pass?
KERCKHOVE: Well, by the fact that we’re talking about it, clearly nobody’s giving anybody a pass.
LEMON: OK.
Do you think he got a pass, Deborah?
DOUGLAS: Yes, I do think he’s getting a pass. But it’s OK, because he’s a civil rights leader. He’s not God. And just because he slips up and he acts like a human being doesn’t negate his overall agenda, which is to combat structural racism. And it doesn’t…
LEMON: I’m not understanding — I’m not understanding what you’re saying. He fought against this word. He said we should bury this word, we shouldn’t use it.
DOUGLAS: Yes. Yes.
LEMON: And all of a sudden, he’s using it. That’s hypocritical. I don’t understand you guys…
DOUGLAS: It’s hypocritical. OK. So haven’t you made a mistake before? Haven’t we all made a mistake?
So he needs to move on, he needs to apologize, but he needs to take what he said into his heart. But it does not diminish his role in giving voice to the voiceless in combating structural racism, which exists.
LEMON: OK. Point taken. Point taken.
But if you have a microphone on, you’re in front of a camera, and you know these things, you’ve been around for years, that’s not to diminish what Reverend Jackson has done. Everyone knows his history. And if they have don’t, they have should probably read it. DOUGLAS: Right.
LEMON: But it doesn’t — it doesn’t take away from the fact of what he’s doing right now in the present — Deborah?
DOUGLAS: Right, OK. So, yes, I’m here.
No, it doesn’t take away from what he’s doing right now. He apologized. We need to find forgiveness in our hearts and move on, because it doesn’t have anything to do with what’s really going on in this country…
LEMON: OK.
DOUGLAS: … which is we’re nearing a recession, we’re not quite there yet. We have a housing crisis, we have an untenable war. And he’s fighting for the overall pursuit of justice for, yes, his constituency, but when we pursue justice for a small group of people, we pursue justice for everyone. And we can’t lose sight of that over sort of superficial discussion over people’s personality flaws.
LEMON: OK. When you’re saying move on, we’re going to have to move on because we’re running out of time.
And Carmen, I want to apologize. You didn’t get a lot of…
DOUGLAS: Sorry.
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: I really appreciate you taking out your time today, both of you, and joining us.
Thank you. Have a great weekend.
KERCKHOVE: Thank you.
DOUGLAS: Thank you.